From brett at projectliberty.org Fri Jan 9 09:03:12 2009 From: brett at projectliberty.org (Brett McDowell) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:03:12 -0500 Subject: [Sig-wsh] Is this where the *new* "XRD" work is being done? Message-ID: Per our earlier discussions about Web Services Harmonization requiring the harmonization of discovery, and the recent work on XRDS (in various forms) molding into a new, harmonized and optimized discovery mechanism for protocols like ID-WSF, Oauth, etc., is this XRI TC where all that work is happening? http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xdi/XdiOne/RdfGraphModel Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard| Calendar Contact Me: [image: Linkedin] [image: Facebook] [image: Blogger][image: Twitter] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.davis at neustar.biz Fri Jan 9 09:15:31 2009 From: peter.davis at neustar.biz (Peter Davis) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:15:31 -0500 Subject: [Sig-wsh] Is this where the *new* "XRD" work is being done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: presently, the XRI TC is working on several bodies of work: + XRD 1.0 (new) breaking out the schema work into a separate publication (was part of resolution) + includes some additional discovery profiles. + includes collaboration/harmonization with other similar efforts at OASIS, IETF, W3C, etc... + XRI Syntax 3.0 updating XRI syntax based on collaboration with a number of groups, including w3c + XRI Resolution for the discovery of XRD locations based on an XRI input URI at least, that is generally what is planned. =peterd On Jan 9, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Brett McDowell wrote: > Per our earlier discussions about Web Services Harmonization > requiring the harmonization of discovery, and the recent work on > XRDS (in various forms) molding into a new, harmonized and optimized > discovery mechanism for protocols like ID-WSF, Oauth, etc., is this > XRI TC where all that work is happening? > > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xdi/XdiOne/RdfGraphModel > > Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard | Calendar > Contact Me: > > _______________________________________________ > Sig-wsh mailing list > Sig-wsh at lists.projectliberty.org > http://lists.projectliberty.org/mailman/listinfo/sig-wsh_lists.projectliberty.org Peter Davis: NeuStar, Inc. Director & Distinguished Member of the Technical Staff 45980 Center Oak Plaza Sterling, VA 20166 [T] +1 571 434 5516 [E] peter.davis at neustar.biz [W] http://www.neustar.biz/ [X] xri://@neustar*pdavis [X] xri://=peterd The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you have received this e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete the original message. From john.bradley at wingaa.com Fri Jan 9 09:17:23 2009 From: john.bradley at wingaa.com (John Bradley) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:17:23 -0300 Subject: [Sig-wsh] Is this where the *new* "XRD" work is being done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes it is being done at the XRI-TC http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri The link you have is to the XDI-TC work that uses XRI for addressing RDF data graphs. This is a separate TC that builds on the XRI work. http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/RecentChanges shows the recent work. Most of the new discussion is around what we are calling the XRD spec. This is intended to be a replacement for Yadis in openID , oAuth, open social, etc and will be used by XRI 3.0. =jbradley On 9-Jan-09, at 2:03 PM, Brett McDowell wrote: > Per our earlier discussions about Web Services Harmonization > requiring the harmonization of discovery, and the recent work on > XRDS (in various forms) molding into a new, harmonized and optimized > discovery mechanism for protocols like ID-WSF, Oauth, etc., is this > XRI TC where all that work is happening? > > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xdi/XdiOne/RdfGraphModel > > Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard | Calendar > Contact Me: > > _______________________________________________ > Sig-wsh mailing list > Sig-wsh at lists.projectliberty.org > http://lists.projectliberty.org/mailman/listinfo/sig-wsh_lists.projectliberty.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2486 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brett at projectliberty.org Fri Jan 9 09:27:21 2009 From: brett at projectliberty.org (Brett McDowell) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:27:21 -0500 Subject: [Sig-wsh] Is this where the *new* "XRD" work is being done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (adding Asa Hardcastle who I do not believe is subscribed) Thanks John! So it seems we (SIG WSH) should be actively discussing the potential of XRD being a basis for harmonizing discovery across WS*, ID-WSF, and any other Web Services specs we are looking at (Oauth, Portable Contacts, etc). I worry about XRD's potential if neither the ID-WSF or WS* camps are active in the work since those frameworks have far more functionality to them (and therefore more demanding requirements) than the frameworks that seem to be driving XRD right now (Oauth, OpenID, and OpenSocial). Is that a fair assessment and/or suggested action for us to take? Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard| Calendar Executive Director, Liberty Alliance Project Contact Me: [image: Linkedin] [image: Facebook] [image: Blogger][image: Twitter] On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:17 PM, John Bradley wrote: > Yes it is being done at the XRI-TC http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri > The link you have is to the XDI-TC work that uses XRI for addressing RDF > data graphs. > This is a separate TC that builds on the XRI work. > > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/RecentChanges > shows the recent work. > > Most of the new discussion is around what we are calling the XRD spec. > This is intended to be a replacement for Yadis in openID , oAuth, > open social, etc and will be used by XRI 3.0. > > =jbradley > > On 9-Jan-09, at 2:03 PM, Brett McDowell wrote: > > Per our earlier discussions about Web Services Harmonization requiring the > harmonization of discovery, and the recent work on XRDS (in various forms) > molding into a new, harmonized and optimized discovery mechanism for > protocols like ID-WSF, Oauth, etc., is this XRI TC where all that work is > happening? > > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xdi/XdiOne/RdfGraphModel > > Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | > vCard| > Calendar > Contact Me: [image: Linkedin] [image: > Facebook] [image: Blogger][image: > Twitter] > > _______________________________________________ > Sig-wsh mailing list > Sig-wsh at lists.projectliberty.org > > http://lists.projectliberty.org/mailman/listinfo/sig-wsh_lists.projectliberty.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.bradley at wingaa.com Fri Jan 9 09:51:32 2009 From: john.bradley at wingaa.com (John Bradley) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:51:32 -0300 Subject: [Sig-wsh] Is this where the *new* "XRD" work is being done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7AAFF9DD-B084-43D8-BD1B-214E0F0C0BF5@wingaa.com> Brett, There is participation from the SAML/Liberty side now though informally through a number of TC members. Higgins on the WS-* side has always intended to use XRDS discovery as part of IDAS. Microsoft is currently sitting on the sidelines for the most part, though we have reached out to them a number of times. XRD and XRDS which is just a XRD Sequence are geared towards public discovery. We are working with the security folks from Google and NRI (Nat) on adding a simple signing like SAML simple sign to XRD to start covering a number of the trust issues that are a issue with URI discovery. At the moment I wouldn't say XRD is targeting replacing ID-WSF discovery or WS*Discovery they are relatively different things. It may be that XRD discovery fills holes that the other two are not designed for rather than replacing them in any way. On the other hand there is certainly a need to understand how they work together. There may be a way to harmonize some of this as we move along. I don't however have a quick answer on what that might be at the moment. =jbradley On 9-Jan-09, at 2:27 PM, Brett McDowell wrote: > (adding Asa Hardcastle who I do not believe is subscribed) > > Thanks John! > > So it seems we (SIG WSH) should be actively discussing the potential > of XRD being a basis for harmonizing discovery across WS*, ID-WSF, > and any other Web Services specs we are looking at (Oauth, Portable > Contacts, etc). I worry about XRD's potential if neither the ID-WSF > or WS* camps are active in the work since those frameworks have far > more functionality to them (and therefore more demanding > requirements) than the frameworks that seem to be driving XRD right > now (Oauth, OpenID, and OpenSocial). Is that a fair assessment and/ > or suggested action for us to take? > > > Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard | Calendar > Executive Director, Liberty Alliance Project > Contact Me: > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:17 PM, John Bradley > wrote: > Yes it is being done at the XRI-TC http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri > > The link you have is to the XDI-TC work that uses XRI for addressing > RDF data graphs. > This is a separate TC that builds on the XRI work. > > http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/RecentChanges > shows the recent work. > > Most of the new discussion is around what we are calling the XRD > spec. This is intended to be a replacement for Yadis in openID , > oAuth, open social, etc and will be used by XRI 3.0. > > =jbradley > > On 9-Jan-09, at 2:03 PM, Brett McDowell wrote: > >> Per our earlier discussions about Web Services Harmonization >> requiring the harmonization of discovery, and the recent work on >> XRDS (in various forms) molding into a new, harmonized and >> optimized discovery mechanism for protocols like ID-WSF, Oauth, >> etc., is this XRI TC where all that work is happening? >> >> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xdi/XdiOne/RdfGraphModel >> >> Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard | Calendar >> Contact Me: >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sig-wsh mailing list >> Sig-wsh at lists.projectliberty.org >> http://lists.projectliberty.org/mailman/listinfo/sig-wsh_lists.projectliberty.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2486 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brett at projectliberty.org Fri Jan 9 10:39:21 2009 From: brett at projectliberty.org (Brett McDowell) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:39:21 -0500 Subject: [Sig-wsh] Is this where the *new* "XRD" work is being done? In-Reply-To: <7AAFF9DD-B084-43D8-BD1B-214E0F0C0BF5@wingaa.com> References: <7AAFF9DD-B084-43D8-BD1B-214E0F0C0BF5@wingaa.com> Message-ID: Eve, it looks like we might want to discuss this XRD "stuff" in our next call, even if just to level-set where it fits into the focus of this group which is really ID-WSF and WS*. Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard| Calendar Executive Director, Liberty Alliance Project Contact Me: [image: Linkedin] [image: Facebook] [image: Blogger][image: Twitter] On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM, John Bradley wrote: > Brett, > > There is participation from the SAML/Liberty side now > though informally through a number of TC members. > Higgins on the WS-* side has always intended to use XRDS discovery as part > of IDAS. > > Microsoft is currently sitting on the sidelines for the most part, though > we have reached out to them a number of times. > > XRD and XRDS which is just a XRD Sequence are geared towards public > discovery. > > We are working with the security folks from Google and NRI (Nat) on adding > a simple signing like SAML simple sign to XRD to start covering a number of > the trust issues that are a issue with URI discovery. > > At the moment I wouldn't say XRD is targeting replacing ID-WSF discovery or > WS*Discovery they are relatively different things. > > It may be that XRD discovery fills holes that the other two are not > designed for rather than replacing them in any way. > > On the other hand there is certainly a need to understand how they work > together. There may be a way to harmonize some of this as we move along. I > don't however have a quick answer on what that might be at the moment. > > =jbradley > > On 9-Jan-09, at 2:27 PM, Brett McDowell wrote: > > (adding Asa Hardcastle who I do not believe is subscribed) > > Thanks John! > > So it seems we (SIG WSH) should be actively discussing the potential of XRD > being a basis for harmonizing discovery across WS*, ID-WSF, and any other > Web Services specs we are looking at (Oauth, Portable Contacts, etc). I > worry about XRD's potential if neither the ID-WSF or WS* camps are active in > the work since those frameworks have far more functionality to them (and > therefore more demanding requirements) than the frameworks that seem to be > driving XRD right now (Oauth, OpenID, and OpenSocial). Is that a fair > assessment and/or suggested action for us to take? > > > Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | > vCard| > Calendar > Executive Director, Liberty Alliance Project > Contact Me: [image: Linkedin] [image: > Facebook] [image: Blogger][image: > Twitter] > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:17 PM, John Bradley wrote: > >> Yes it is being done at the XRI-TC http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri >> The link you have is to the XDI-TC work that uses XRI for addressing RDF >> data graphs. >> This is a separate TC that builds on the XRI work. >> >> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/RecentChanges >> shows the recent work. >> >> Most of the new discussion is around what we are calling the XRD spec. >> This is intended to be a replacement for Yadis in openID , oAuth, >> open social, etc and will be used by XRI 3.0. >> >> =jbradley >> >> On 9-Jan-09, at 2:03 PM, Brett McDowell wrote: >> >> Per our earlier discussions about Web Services Harmonization requiring the >> harmonization of discovery, and the recent work on XRDS (in various forms) >> molding into a new, harmonized and optimized discovery mechanism for >> protocols like ID-WSF, Oauth, etc., is this XRI TC where all that work is >> happening? >> >> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xdi/XdiOne/RdfGraphModel >> >> Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | >> vCard| >> Calendar >> Contact Me: [image: Linkedin] [image: >> Facebook] [image: Blogger][image: >> Twitter] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sig-wsh mailing list >> Sig-wsh at lists.projectliberty.org >> >> http://lists.projectliberty.org/mailman/listinfo/sig-wsh_lists.projectliberty.org >> >> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Eve.Maler at Sun.COM Sun Jan 11 14:44:24 2009 From: Eve.Maler at Sun.COM (Eve Maler) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:44:24 -0800 Subject: [Sig-wsh] Is this where the *new* "XRD" work is being done? In-Reply-To: References: <7AAFF9DD-B084-43D8-BD1B-214E0F0C0BF5@wingaa.com> Message-ID: I guess it's time to try and schedule a call -- we've been meeting ad- hoc and don't have a set schedule for meetings. We did discuss the discovery harmonization idea; quoting extensively from our Nov 21 telecon (more below that): ==== 3. "Identity Services Lookup" TC, to receive: - Discovery Service This is the logical discovery piece of the Discovery Service (vs. the token issuance piece discussed above). In the past, UDDI had been mentioned as relevant, though the design centers of the two seemed not to match. XRDS seems to be more relevant. John notes that Google and Bob Morgan have joined the XRI TC because of their interest in XRDS, and even Dave Orchard may join. And there's an infocard identity selector that's using XRD cleverly. Historical note: YADIS (then Yadis) became XRDS-Simple, which is in the process of becoming "XRD" (though it may end up being a series of XRDs, that is, an XRDS). XRDS and its XRD data-structure component have continued to be standardized in the XRI TC. The XRDS universe provides a discovery format and a tiny bit of protocol for discovery of itself (and there was some uncompleted work around discovery descriptor provisioning), while the Discovery Service provides a protocol. Given that the XRI TC's work is now relatively cleanly split into XRI Syntax and the XRDS stuff, does it make sense to contemplate an XRDS and Discovery Service "merger", if their use cases can be accommodated? The Discovery Service today returns an endpoint, leveraging WS-Addressing. XRDS doesn't leverage it at all. A nice harmonization picture could be made out of an XRD-based format and an abstract protocol with both SOAP-based (with WS-Addressing) and RESTful bindings. Let's do some focused outreach on this specific idea, to see if it's worth pursuing. Harmonization with WS-* has been the primary focus of this SIG, and XRD harmonization would be "bonus" but secondary according to our plan of record. The IDTrust Member Section puts in a bid for holding these new TCs! AI: Paul and John to put together a strawman for discussion at a follow-on focused SIG-WSH call about discovery/lookup. AI: John and the TEG reps to pursue focused inquiries with their communities about discovery/lookup harmonization. ==== After that call, I did subscribe to the XRI TC list, where there's been an explosion of mail that I haven't had a prayer of reading in a timely fashion! If I can get an "amen" from the people who took on these AIs, I'll put together a meeting-time poll. Eve On Jan 9, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Brett McDowell wrote: > Eve, it looks like we might want to discuss this XRD "stuff" in our > next call, even if just to level-set where it fits into the focus of > this group which is really ID-WSF and WS*. > > > Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard | Calendar > Executive Director, Liberty Alliance Project > Contact Me: > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM, John Bradley > wrote: > Brett, > > There is participation from the SAML/Liberty side now though > informally through a number of TC members. > > Higgins on the WS-* side has always intended to use XRDS discovery > as part of IDAS. > > Microsoft is currently sitting on the sidelines for the most part, > though we have reached out to them a number of times. > > XRD and XRDS which is just a XRD Sequence are geared towards public > discovery. > > We are working with the security folks from Google and NRI (Nat) on > adding a simple signing like SAML simple sign to XRD to start > covering a number of the trust issues that are a issue with URI > discovery. > > At the moment I wouldn't say XRD is targeting replacing ID-WSF > discovery or WS*Discovery they are relatively different things. > > It may be that XRD discovery fills holes that the other two are not > designed for rather than replacing them in any way. > > On the other hand there is certainly a need to understand how they > work together. There may be a way to harmonize some of this as we > move along. I don't however have a quick answer on what that might > be at the moment. > > =jbradley > > On 9-Jan-09, at 2:27 PM, Brett McDowell wrote: > >> (adding Asa Hardcastle who I do not believe is subscribed) >> >> Thanks John! >> >> So it seems we (SIG WSH) should be actively discussing the >> potential of XRD being a basis for harmonizing discovery across >> WS*, ID-WSF, and any other Web Services specs we are looking at >> (Oauth, Portable Contacts, etc). I worry about XRD's potential if >> neither the ID-WSF or WS* camps are active in the work since those >> frameworks have far more functionality to them (and therefore more >> demanding requirements) than the frameworks that seem to be driving >> XRD right now (Oauth, OpenID, and OpenSocial). Is that a fair >> assessment and/or suggested action for us to take? >> >> >> Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard | Calendar >> Executive Director, Liberty Alliance Project >> Contact Me: >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:17 PM, John Bradley > > wrote: >> Yes it is being done at the XRI-TC http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri >> >> The link you have is to the XDI-TC work that uses XRI for >> addressing RDF data graphs. >> This is a separate TC that builds on the XRI work. >> >> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/RecentChanges >> shows the recent work. >> >> Most of the new discussion is around what we are calling the XRD >> spec. This is intended to be a replacement for Yadis in openID , >> oAuth, open social, etc and will be used by XRI 3.0. >> >> =jbradley >> >> On 9-Jan-09, at 2:03 PM, Brett McDowell wrote: >> >>> Per our earlier discussions about Web Services Harmonization >>> requiring the harmonization of discovery, and the recent work on >>> XRDS (in various forms) molding into a new, harmonized and >>> optimized discovery mechanism for protocols like ID-WSF, Oauth, >>> etc., is this XRI TC where all that work is happening? >>> >>> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xdi/XdiOne/RdfGraphModel >>> >>> Brett McDowell | +1 (413) 652-1248 | Blog | vCard | Calendar >>> Contact Me: >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sig-wsh mailing list >>> Sig-wsh at lists.projectliberty.org >>> http://lists.projectliberty.org/mailman/listinfo/sig-wsh_lists.projectliberty.org >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sig-wsh mailing list > Sig-wsh at lists.projectliberty.org > http://lists.projectliberty.org/mailman/listinfo/sig-wsh_lists.projectliberty.org Eve Maler +1 425 947 4522 Principal Engineer eve.maler @ sun.com Business Alliances group Sun Microsystems, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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